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Mavs 124, Nuggets 117
#21
(01-08-2021, 01:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: For me, personally, it's difficult to think about Richardson's defense on a night when he was so, so terrible on offense.

This. In the first half the Mavs offense looked all time bad and he was probably the biggest problem. He was 0-7 from the floor. Right now he looks more like the 2nd coming of Tony Allen. Not exactly a two-way player but still a making an impact.


#22
(01-08-2021, 01:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't believe so. I think Boban literally lacks the ability to do anything about it. But, if the defenders had been KP and WCS, rather than Boban and WCS, I don't think he gets nearly as many of those perimeter looks (even the ones he didn't take that '98 is talking about).

Totally agree that Bobi couldn't guard the three-point line.

Given that, for example, doesn't a decision to run Bobi out as the sole big against Jokic effectively constitute a decision that you're probably going to allow Jokic some open threes? 

I wouldn't fault Rick if he chose to make Jokic a jump shooter, even an open one, if necessary. As bad as Bobi was defensively, the team didn't lose points during the overall time he was on the floor. And although Jokic can hit  jump shots, he hasn't historically been a particularly good three-point shooter. With KP out and WCS in foul trouble for a good part of the game, I wouldn't be shocked if Rick decided that leaving Jokic open behind the arc was the least lethal of the various poisons presented. Even WCS wasn't amazing against Nikola's 3PAs -- iirc, on Jokic's last killer three, Willie was on him, but didn't get a hand up. 

Not saying this to quibble over a small point. Not even saying for sure that's what happened. More that it seems like a window into how the team might best respond this season against offensive behemoths like Jokic and AD when no great answer seems to be available. Maybe a bit of a test of the theory that if you can't stop one of these guys in any case, you might as well try to contain him in the paint and put in an offensive player who can score and make the big guy play a little defense? A sign of Carlisle adjusting to the minute-by-minute reality that the players available just can't stop a guy in a way other than continuing the same approach to get said players some more experience, which might indicate a more win-now focus? 

Not at all saying you are wrong, and this one game may be too isolated an example to draw any particular conclusions, anyway. I have been pondering all season whether the Mavs have an answer for these huge guys who can score from anywhere, and I may just be wishfully thinking that we have some decent Plan Bs available. Something to assuage my horror when Jokic kept firing off threes with nobody near him, lol.


#23
Just talking about the rotation and substitutions RC really nailed it.
After a slow start and with a struggling offense he used Boban to create some easy scoring opportunities in the paint. When the team struggled in the early 3rd quarter he made the perfect adjustment and replaced a struggling Richardson with THJ. The Brunson-Doncic-THJ-Kleber-Powell lineup went on a big run and tied the game.
In the early 4th quarter both teams exchanged baskets. THJ missed some good looks and Richardson replaced him. Mavs finished the game with the starting five.

One thing that annoyed me. Foul management. Mavs did a great job and got into the bonus early in the quarter all game long but they did not take advantage and settled for jumpshots.
Even worse. Jokic started the 4th quarter with four fouls. He finished the game with four fouls. A smart team (Lakers in the WCF) would attack him without mercy. Leaving Jokic with a choice. Give up easy baskets or foul out.
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#24
(01-08-2021, 01:32 PM)DaRiv Wrote: I think he just missed shots, but was right to take many of those shots.  If he makes just 3 more shots then he shoots over 50% for the game.  

If you want to see terrible Mav offense, including some truly awful passes, here's video clips of our 13 turnovers, which has only 1 travel by JRich:

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?Contex...ction=game

Have to admit, some of those turnovers were absolutely cringeworthy. Fortunately, there were only 4 in the second half, and none in overtime. Hoo-boy.


#25
(01-08-2021, 03:18 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: Given that, for example, doesn't a decision to run Bobi out as the sole big against Jokic effectively constitute a decision that you're probably going to allow Jokic some open threes? 


It's a valid question, and I can better see where you're coming from now, thanks.

I think the decision to run Boban out was based on two factors:

1) the first half offense was TERRIBLE. In theory, when the offense is disjointed to such an extreme, that's the exact scenario where the "Boban button" should get pushed. I was less than thrilled with the results last night, but this tactic has helped the team in the past, so I thought the initial decision to play him was valid.

2) I'm assuming that the reason he played AGAIN in this 3rd quarter (and a third time in the 4th????) was because Carlisle felt he had no choice. Powell and Johnson were both pretty bad in the first half themselves, I think, and someone has to go out there and play center while Willie sits. I suppose that in a sense, when Carlisle decided that getting killed by ball movement with Boban out there was preferable to getting killed inside with Powell out there, that supports your point. 

Incidentally, Powell came back in and had a good stretch to end the third (this was when the Mavs got back into the game) and Johnson gave them a nice couple of minutes in the 4th, so I'm not sure playing Boban (the 2nd time, in the 3rd quarter) was the lesser of two evils, after all.
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#26
(01-08-2021, 03:20 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just talking about the rotation and substitutions RC really nailed it.
After a slow start and with a struggling offense he used Boban to create some easy scoring opportunities in the paint. When the team struggled in the early 3rd quarter he made the perfect adjustment and replaced a struggling Richardson with THJ. The Brunson-Doncic-THJ-Kleber-Powell lineup went on a big run and tied the game.
In the early 4th quarter both teams exchanged baskets. THJ missed some good looks and Richardson replaced him. Mavs finished the game with the starting five.

One thing that annoyed me. Foul management. Mavs did a great job and got into the bonus early in the quarter all game long but they did not take advantage and settled for jumpshots.
Even worse. Jokic started the 4th quarter with four fouls. He finished the game with four fouls. A smart team (Lakers in the WCF) would attack him without mercy. Leaving Jokic with a choice. Give up easy baskets or foul out.

Agree that the substitutions worked out well, and were not altogether expected. 

I kept thinking about that foul situation during the game, especially after Jokic was called for his fourth. That isn't entirely uncharacteristic of the Mavs. They often don't target players who are in foul trouble. Go figure.
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#27
(01-08-2021, 03:20 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: He finished the game with four fouls. A smart team (Lakers in the WCF) would attack him without mercy. Leaving Jokic with a choice. Give up easy baskets or foul out.


I agree. And, as we discussed in the discord, there was a significant portion of this four foul time for Jokic when Boban was in the game. This did NOT result in any added pressure on Jokic as a defender, as some here might blindly claim. In fact, I'd argue that chasing WCS or Powell up and down the court might have been more effective in that specific way.


#28
(01-08-2021, 12:32 PM)DaRiv Wrote: This was the most solid defense I've seen WCS play.  And he had several outstanding plays.  That said, he by no means stopped Jokic, but only managed to contain him.  I rewatched the videos of Jokic's FGAs for this game, he missed a lot of wide open looks and could have easily scored 55 points in this one.  That said, I hope WCS continues to improve and get minutes instead of James Johnson and Trey Burke.

Against any franchise player you either hope they have a bad day or you make them work for every point, board or dime.  Happy to hear WCS was able to contain Jokic.


#29
My observations:

1) If clutch-Luka with post ups and midrange game becomes a thing, the world might explode. 

2) The trio of Kleber, J-Rich and DFS next to Luka and a big man is just too good to be true. When KP comes back, that´s a starting 5 with no holes anymore (if DFS and Josh hit their shots) - championship calibre if you ask me

3) The locked on guys put it very well: Kleber is a wing. That´s so true and we should play him like a 3-D-wing just like yesterday. No more C for Maxi.

4) I didn´t expect WCS to be so effective against Jokic. Don´t really know, where that came from.

5) I like having Brunson out there next to Luka for some stretches. Would experiment with that a bit more. The playmaking without Luka is atrocious so far. Neither Brunson nor THJ can run the show like JJB did for years. 

6) I love Powell´s attitude. He embraces his role and is effective in it. 

7) Most importantly: Our defense in the first half was incredibly good. We would have been down by 30 last season, if we had struggled like that on offense. Where do all these steals come from suddenly? This year 10th in the NBA with 8.8 steals per game. Last season 29th with 6.1. That´s speaking volumes about our approach and personal.
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#30
(01-08-2021, 04:52 PM)Thukydides Wrote: 5) I like having Brunson out there next to Luka for some stretches. Would experiment with that a bit more. The playmaking without Luka is atrocious so far. Neither Brunson nor THJ can run the show like JJB did for years.


I agree, and neither can Richardson or Burke. If/when KP comes back and the big rotation stabilizes, this might end up being the biggest problem the team has.


#31
(01-08-2021, 03:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree. And, as we discussed in the discord, there was a significant portion of this four foul time for Jokic when Boban was in the game. This did NOT result in any added pressure on Jokic as a defender, as some here might blindly claim. In fact, I'd argue that chasing WCS or Powell up and down the court might have been more effective in that specific way.

My observation is that Jokic was starting to get too effective inside until Bobi came in and forced him away from the basket. Plus Bobi was too much for them inside. As the game wore on, WCS seemed to get more comfortable staying home on Jokic, although the scoring didn't reflect this. He did his damage from distance and was swarmed later when trying to score down low.

He's a tough cover, like Luka. Seems more mobile since losing weight. Has a good move across the lane with that sweeping hook shot. I remember him using it with his right hand. I don't know if he's as effect with his left.

The front line held their own, but it will be a relief getting reinforcements with the quality of KP.


#32
(01-08-2021, 05:00 PM)michaeltex Wrote: My observation is that Jokic was starting to get too effective inside until Bobi came in and forced him away from the basket.


With all the respect in the world, I think this quite far from the truth. I didn't see Boban do anything "inside" on defense that "forced" anyone to do anything. Quite the opposite, actually.
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#33
(01-08-2021, 04:52 PM)Thukydides Wrote: My observations:

1) If clutch-Luka with post ups and midrange game becomes a thing, the world might explode. 

2) The trio of Kleber, J-Rich and DFS next to Luka and a big man is just too good to be true. When KP comes back, that´s a starting 5 with no holes anymore (if DFS and Josh hit their shots) - championship calibre if you ask me

3) The locked on guys put it very well: Kleber is a wing. That´s so true and we should play him like a 3-D-wing just like yesterday. No more C for Maxi.

4) I didn´t expect WCS to be so effective against Jokic. Don´t really know, where that came from.

5) I like having Brunson out there next to Luka for some stretches. Would experiment with that a bit more. The playmaking without Luka is atrocious so far. Neither Brunson nor THJ can run the show like JJB did for years. 

6) I love Powell´s attitude. He embraces his role and is effective in it. 

7) Most importantly: Our defense in the first half was incredibly good. We would have been down by 30 last season, if we had struggled like that on offense. Where do all these steals come from suddenly? This year 10th in the NBA with 8.8 steals per game. Last season 29th with 6.1. That´s speaking volumes about our approach and personal.
This is a good take. 

Playoff rotation of:
Luka/Rich/DFS/Maxi/KP
Brunson/Hardaway/WCS

Those guys get the bulk of the minutes. This is a championship caliber team “as is”. We’ve just scratched the surface. Wait till we start playing well for whole games


#34
(01-08-2021, 05:42 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: This is a championship caliber team “as is”. We’ve just scratched the surface. Wait till we start playing well for whole games
hahahaha


I like wry humor.


#35
(01-08-2021, 04:52 PM)Thukydides Wrote: My observations:



4) I didn´t expect WCS to be so effective against Jokic. Don´t really know, where that came from.
The fact that one can say that with a straight face after Jokic posted a 38/11/4 just shows what a beast he is.


#36
(01-08-2021, 05:59 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: The fact that one can say that with a straight face after Jokic posted a 38/11/4 just shows what a beast he is.


TOTALLY. But, it was a pretty damn inefficient 38, and WCS checked him most effectively down the stretch, when it mattered.
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#37
(01-08-2021, 05:59 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: The fact that one can say that with a straight face after Jokic posted a 38/11/4 just shows what a beast he is.

Just looked at the numbers. Jokic had 10+ ast in 6/8 games this season. Four is a season low. 53.7% TS is also a season low.
Whatever the Mavs did really limited Jokic´s passing game. I think the biggest reason was not WCS playing good 1v1 defense (although that obviously helped) but Richardson and DFS denying the hand off. Usually the Nuggets run the Murray/Harris/Bartion-Jokic two-man game. With multiple screens and hand offs. At some point the defense collapses and Jokic finds the open man. When the handoffs and screens cannot force switches or collapse the defense Jokic is forced into an iso/post up situation.
That´s exactly what happened against the Mavs. Less high post/ellbow playmaking and more lowpost scoring.


#38
(01-08-2021, 07:07 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just looked at the numbers. Jokic had 10+ ast in 6/8 games this season. Four is a season low. 53.7% TS is also a season low.
Whatever the Mavs did really limited Jokic´s passing game. I think the biggest reason was not WCS playing good 1v1 defense (although that obviously helped) but Richardson and DFS denying the hand off. Usually the Nuggets run the Murray/Harris/Bartion-Jokic two-man game. With multiple screens and hand offs. At some point the defense collapses and Jokic finds the open man. When the handoffs and screens cannot force switches or collapse the defense Jokic is forced into an iso/post up situation.
That´s exactly what happened against the Mavs. Less high post/ellbow playmaking and more lowpost scoring.

That´s a good point. DFS was very good and J-Rich was absolutely insanely good denying the cutters.


#39
https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1347...53888?s=20


#40
(01-08-2021, 02:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: This. In the first half the Mavs offense looked all time bad and he was probably the biggest problem. He was 0-7 from the floor. Right now he looks more like the 2nd coming of Tony Allen. Not exactly a two-way player but still a making an impact.

Interesting comparison.


  


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