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ROSTER TALK: Trade/FA Ideas (Mar 25 TDL) + Salary Chart
#61
(12-03-2020, 12:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 12:39 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: ...now that we have the big horses spots filled.

So if you believe that, then we're not going to see this the same way. 

I think that is FAR from true.

I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade


#62
(12-03-2020, 01:53 PM)Jym Wrote: I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade


Killer wants 3 stars


#63
(12-03-2020, 02:00 PM)fifteenth Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 01:53 PM)Jym Wrote: I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade


Killer wants 3 stars
At this point the only real way to that is Giannis. I don’t believe there are other real options


#64
(12-03-2020, 02:00 PM)fifteenth Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 01:53 PM)Jym Wrote: I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade


Killer wants 3 stars

That would be nice for sure. I'd love a few easy, gimme titles.


#65
(12-03-2020, 01:39 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Are you saying you don't believe in KP's ability?  Or Health?  Because, if healthy, there aren't many players we can get that would be better than him.  It is ok to doubt whether he is a "stable" horse that you can count on.

I've been talking about this for months, but I'll state my concerns again, as clearly as I can. 

KP's health is a concern, for sure, but not the main one, for me. Now, to be clear, he hasn't played very much over the last three years (developmentally, very important years), so it's possible that this is contributing to my thinking about him relative to what IS my concern, but that concern is NOT directly related to his health. I trust the Mavs enough to believe they took a reasonably safe risk on him, health-wise. 

My main concern is that, to this point, I have seen no evidence that KP is able to be used here in such a way that he can positively influence the game with the ball in his hands. That's what you should get for "max" money, imo, especially when you're talking about the 1st or 2nd max guy. He's a GREAT player to have, but so far, his offensive contributions, while effective, have been completely dependent on a ball-handler to have any impact.

Here's how we've seen him used here, so far:
  • As an off-ball floor spacer, he's probably the best in the league, due to his size and high release point. The size is germane in two ways, one, because he requires less space to be able to get the shot off and two, because it likely means that he's matched up with an opposing player who Dallas would very much like to have as far away from the basket as possible, freeing valuable space for Luka and others. This is valuable, FOR SURE, but at MAX MONEY? In a vacuum, is what KP gives you in this area really that much more valuable than what you get from Kleber, Bertans, Ibaka, PJ Tucker, etc? If this is the BEST thing he brings to the table, and the skill that's most often used, I say no.
  • As a pick and roll diver or an off ball cutter, moving downhill towards the rim, he's quite valuable. He has good hands, maybe not the best, but definitely good enough, and he converts efficiently. He's NOT as good as Powell (or many others) here, due mostly, imo, because he doesn't seem to handle the short roll effectively enough. He simply doesn't have that one dribble pull up or two dribble drive off of the short roll locked completely in his tool belt, imo, and without those, passing out of it becomes a moot point. He has the skill to grow here, I think, but I haven't seen it yet, and if some people around here are correct about Powell being very much in the plans moving forward, I'm not sure when we'll even see him get the opportunity to grow in this way. Still, what he has established here is worthy of being listed in his skill profile. 
  • As a pick and pop, designed spot shooter, he's not Dirk yet, but I can see this being the most likely element that gets added in the near future. Again, however, see my question about Powell. For me to buy into this, I have to know whether the Mavs believe in it enough to go all-in on it. Even if they do, I haven't seen much evidence that he can learn to be effective riffing off of it. He has this rep for being able to floor the ball, but...I'm not seeing it. Can he dribble? Yes. Can he pump fake and then attack a close out with an aggressive, direction changing drive to the rim, or variety of tried and true 1-2 dribble solutions to get a better jumper off? If so, I don't think we've seen it in Dallas yet. I'm worried. 
     
What's missing? Any kind of offensive action that is run THROUGH him. During Dirk's time in Dallas, we saw the evolution from his early years, during which it was clear they had half a mind to try to make him a point-forward (didn't work out) all the way to 2011, when there were at least 4-5 spots on the floor where you could throw him the ball and let him go to work. Go rewatch those games, and even you, a Dallas fan who probably LOVED him, will be surprised at just how many low post possessions Dirk got that season. And, we all remember his high post, elbow iso game, as well as the countless possessions where he would catch it above the free throw line where it was almost impossible for the opposing team to double him. The only thing Dirk never quite mastered was passing. He became a good enough passer, but never reached Dunan's level with that. But, he COULD impact the game in a profound way with the ball in his hands. 

Think of how Jokic plays in Dever, or Adabayo, in Miami. AD in LA. THOSE guys are max contract bigs, imo. All of them handle the ball A LOT, and to the great benefit of their teams. They are play finishers, but just as likely to be play initiators. 

In NY, the plan was to make Porzingis a post player, like 2011 Dirk. We know Carlisle doesn't share that vision, which is fine. But, imo, they had better figure out SOMETHING if he's really supposed to be the 2nd best player on this team. Imagine a signifiant stretch of time when KP is healthy, but Luka isn't. DISASTER. If your entire season rests on the availability of ONE player, then I offer the suggestion that you might not actually have the right 2nd guy in place. 

Now, again...maybe Carlisle has a plan for KP that will completely change my tune on all of the above, and if so, GREAT. Like I keep saying, I just haven't seen it yet. 

This post doesn't even address the defensive end, where I believe Porzingis is very useful, but definitely not a game changer, and will require more and more creative work-arounds as he ages. 

And, once again, I like the player. I'm glad he's here. I would've made the trade, and I probably would've offered the same extension the Mavs did. If he's your 3rd guy, all of the concerns I have go away, and the "limited" skills I listed above become LUXURY to an insane level. But, if this team doesn't have another guy on this roster who can pressure the defense with the ball in his hands before Luka's extension kicks in at the end of next summer, I think there's a very good chance that we'll look back at KP's contract like it was a mistake. That extension effectively put an end date on the "flexible team building" portion of Luka's career. 

Just how I see it. People are free to disagree. 

(12-03-2020, 01:53 PM)Jym Wrote: I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade

Because until Luka signs his extension, we're still living in a world where anything is possible. 

I don't mind an overpaid KP as a 3rd guy at all. Love him for that, in fact. 

And, to be clear, I don't need that 2nd guy to be better than him right away, especially not status wise. A young guy with an obvious ball-handling fit here and the potential to be the 2nd guy is enough to move forward, imo. 

If they don't get that guy (before Luka's extension), I probably WILL be the leader of team "trade Porzingis" as at that point, I believe that will be the only way forward.
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#66
(12-03-2020, 01:44 PM)fifteenth Wrote: dude

come on, now

surely you don't think that
Dude, have you not followed this board EVERY SINGLE offseason for the last 10 years? EVERY SINGLE offseason has the same declarations in them. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

(12-03-2020, 01:53 PM)Jym Wrote: I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade
Exactly this.

(12-03-2020, 02:00 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Killer wants 3 stars
Want and need are two very different thoughts.

(12-03-2020, 03:15 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote:
Quote:Killer wants 3 stars
Want and need are two very different thoughts.
Actually, Killer wants 2 stars. He doesn't consider KP to be a star based on his definition.
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


#67
(12-03-2020, 03:15 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Actually, Killer wants 2 stars. He doesn't consider KP to be a star based on his definition.

Correct. At least, not based on what we've seen so far.


#68
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...7884813319


#69
KP is a star! I love his game. Not everything shows up in the stats sheet, altho a good chunk of it does. Even when he doesn't shoot well he helps the offense because he draws so much attention and creates space. You have to guard KP 3 feet behind the 3 point line or he's going to launch a 3 pointer. Defensively he's great. I am very pro-KP.

I would like a third star if possible but I think that could be hard to obtain so I think the next best thing is a third scorer who can help carry the load when one of the others are unavailable. The easiest spot to do that would be THJ's spot, trying to upgrade him into a Lavine or Hield scorer. If that can't happen then Mavs will keep doing things by committee. Lots of guys can get buckets on this team just not a lot that could give you 20 points a night if KP is out for 3 weeks.
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#70
(12-03-2020, 03:31 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Not everything shows up in the stats sheet, altho a good chunk of it does. Even when he doesn't shoot well he helps the offense because he draws so much attention and creates space. 

It's cool to disagree, but this doesn't read like you have any understanding of what I wrote above. Did you skip it?


#71
(12-03-2020, 03:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 03:31 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Not everything shows up in the stats sheet, altho a good chunk of it does. Even when he doesn't shoot well he helps the offense because he draws so much attention and creates space. 

It's cool to disagree, but this doesn't read like you have any understanding of what I wrote above. Did you skip it?

Not the long-form, just this "Correct. At least, not based on what we've seen so far."

I believe in KP as our 2nd best player!
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#72
KP can and has utilized the ball to initiate offense for himself. RC's offense so far hasn't allowed him to do that very much. Although, when Luka goes to the bench, KP's "star" shines much brighter! Can't figure out how anyone can think otherwise after watching him play.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


#73
Also are there KP haters that also are pro-Powell in the starting lineup? If so you need to understand that KP as a star requires Powell on the bench. Then his full offensive game is unleashed and he isn't just a spacer.


#74
(12-03-2020, 03:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Also are there KP haters that also are pro-Powell in the starting lineup? If so you need to understand that KP as a star requires Powell on the bench. Then his full offensive game is unleashed and he isn't just a spacer.

Again, it's as if you didn't read a word of what I wrote. I'm struggling to find your train of thought and how it might relate to today's conversation. This is certainly not a rebuttal to anything I wrote, not by a long shot. 

I would assume that you're addressing someone else, but since I'm the only one bringing up the idea that KP might not be good enough to be the 2nd guy we're hoping he is, I can't imagine who that would be. Then again, you must be talking to someone else, because I'm far, far from being a "KP hater." 

The most likely explanation, I suppose, is that you're simply responding to something you didn't take the time to read.

(12-03-2020, 03:41 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: KP can and has utilized the ball to initiate offense for himself. RC's offense so far hasn't allowed him to do that very much. Although, when Luka goes to the bench, KP's "star" shines much brighter! Can't figure out how anyone can think otherwise after watching him play.

In NY, yes! He showed that kind of potential. 

Last year in Dallas, no. I'm still holding out (a little) hope, but I'm far from being comfortable that they have "enough" at the top of the roster to move forward with confidence. If you think I've missed some things in KP's game (that fit into Dallas' plan for him) then PLEASE, point them out! I would love to be wrong about this one. I am very concerned about this, and have been since right around the All Star break.

(12-03-2020, 03:40 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Not the long-form, just this "Correct. At least, not based on what we've seen so far."

I believe in KP as our 2nd best player!

Gotcha. Ok, makes sense. 

Just know that the reasons you THINK I feel the way I do are not the reasons I feel that way.


#75
(12-03-2020, 03:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 03:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Also are there KP haters that also are pro-Powell in the starting lineup? If so you need to understand that KP as a star requires Powell on the bench. Then his full offensive game is unleashed and he isn't just a spacer.

Again, it's as if you didn't read a word of what I wrote. I'm struggling to find your train of thought and how it might relate to today's conversation. This is certainly not a rebuttal to anything I wrote, not by a long shot. 

I would assume that you're addressing someone else, but since I'm the only one bringing up the idea that KP might not be good enough to be the 2nd guy we're hoping he is, I can't imagine who that would be. Then again, you must be talking to someone else, because I'm far, far from being a "KP hater." 

The most likely explanation, I suppose, is that you're simply responding to something you didn't take the time to read.

I wasn't directing that comment at you. I did read your longer post and I get what you are saying but I disagree. I realize KP isn't Dirk (altho most players aren't?) but I love his game and absolutely believe he's a max-level player. We didn't get to see 100% KP yet but I think we will get there. He isn't a guard and Rick doesn't like post-ups so its unlikely you are going to see a ton of action run through him like you might see Embiid get. But that's okay bc I don't think that style of basketball wins championships anymore anyway. I think KP is as much a star as any modern center can be a star. Certainly more than Gobert. Jokic is the best center in the league and I think KP is close. KAT, Embiid, Bam, Ayton don't do anything for me. I like KP's well rounded game and believe he is a star worth max-money.
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#76
(12-03-2020, 02:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(12-03-2020, 01:39 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Are you saying you don't believe in KP's ability?  Or Health?  Because, if healthy, there aren't many players we can get that would be better than him.  It is ok to doubt whether he is a "stable" horse that you can count on.

I've been talking about this for months, but I'll state my concerns again, as clearly as I can. 

KP's health is a concern, for sure, but not the main one, for me. Now, to be clear, he hasn't played very much over the last three years (developmentally, very important years), so it's possible that this is contributing to my thinking about him relative to what IS my concern, but that concern is NOT directly related to his health. I trust the Mavs enough to believe they took a reasonably safe risk on him, health-wise. 

My main concern is that, to this point, I have seen no evidence that KP is able to be used here in such a way that he can positively influence the game with the ball in his hands. That's what you should get for "max" money, imo, especially when you're talking about the 1st or 2nd max guy. He's a GREAT player to have, but so far, his offensive contributions, while effective, have been completely dependent on a ball-handler to have any impact.

Here's how we've seen him used here, so far:
  • As an off-ball floor spacer, he's probably the best in the league, due to his size and high release point. The size is germane in two ways, one, because he requires less space to be able to get the shot off and two, because it likely means that he's matched up with an opposing player who Dallas would very much like to have as far away from the basket as possible, freeing valuable space for Luka and others. This is valuable, FOR SURE, but at MAX MONEY? In a vacuum, is what KP gives you in this area really that much more valuable than what you get from Kleber, Bertans, Ibaka, PJ Tucker, etc? If this is the BEST thing he brings to the table, and the skill that's most often used, I say no.
  • As a pick and roll diver or an off ball cutter, moving downhill towards the rim, he's quite valuable. He has good hands, maybe not the best, but definitely good enough, and he converts efficiently. He's NOT as good as Powell (or many others) here, due mostly, imo, because he doesn't seem to handle the short roll effectively enough. He simply doesn't have that one dribble pull up or two dribble drive off of the short roll locked completely in his tool belt, imo, and without those, passing out of it becomes a moot point. He has the skill to grow here, I think, but I haven't seen it yet, and if some people around here are correct about Powell being very much in the plans moving forward, I'm not sure when we'll even see him get the opportunity to grow in this way. Still, what he has established here is worthy of being listed in his skill profile. 
  • As a pick and pop, designed spot shooter, he's not Dirk yet, but I can see this being the most likely element that gets added in the near future. Again, however, see my question about Powell. For me to buy into this, I have to know whether the Mavs believe in it enough to go all-in on it. Even if they do, I haven't seen much evidence that he can learn to be effective riffing off of it. He has this rep for being able to floor the ball, but...I'm not seeing it. Can he dribble? Yes. Can he pump fake and then attack a close out with an aggressive, direction changing drive to the rim, or variety of tried and true 1-2 dribble solutions to get a better jumper off? If so, I don't think we've seen it in Dallas yet. I'm worried. 
     
What's missing? Any kind of offensive action that is run THROUGH him. During Dirk's time in Dallas, we saw the evolution from his early years, during which it was clear they had half a mind to try to make him a point-forward (didn't work out) all the way to 2011, when there were at least 4-5 spots on the floor where you could throw him the ball and let him go to work. Go rewatch those games, and even you, a Dallas fan who probably LOVED him, will be surprised at just how many low post possessions Dirk got that season. And, we all remember his high post, elbow iso game, as well as the countless possessions where he would catch it above the free throw line where it was almost impossible for the opposing team to double him. The only thing Dirk never quite mastered was passing. He became a good enough passer, but never reached Dunan's level with that. But, he COULD impact the game in a profound way with the ball in his hands. 

Think of how Jokic plays in Dever, or Adabayo, in Miami. AD in LA. THOSE guys are max contract bigs, imo. All of them handle the ball A LOT, and to the great benefit of their teams. They are play finishers, but just as likely to be play initiators. 

In NY, the plan was to make Porzingis a post player, like 2011 Dirk. We know Carlisle doesn't share that vision, which is fine. But, imo, they had better figure out SOMETHING if he's really supposed to be the 2nd best player on this team. Imagine a signifiant stretch of time when KP is healthy, but Luka isn't. DISASTER. If your entire season rests on the availability of ONE player, then I offer the suggestion that you might not actually have the right 2nd guy in place. 

Now, again...maybe Carlisle has a plan for KP that will completely change my tune on all of the above, and if so, GREAT. Like I keep saying, I just haven't seen it yet. 

This post doesn't even address the defensive end, where I believe Porzingis is very useful, but definitely not a game changer, and will require more and more creative work-arounds as he ages. 

And, once again, I like the player. I'm glad he's here. I would've made the trade, and I probably would've offered the same extension the Mavs did. If he's your 3rd guy, all of the concerns I have go away, and the "limited" skills I listed above become LUXURY to an insane level. But, if this team doesn't have another guy on this roster who can pressure the defense with the ball in his hands before Luka's extension kicks in at the end of next summer, I think there's a very good chance that we'll look back at KP's contract like it was a mistake. That extension effectively put an end date on the "flexible team building" portion of Luka's career. 

Just how I see it. People are free to disagree. 

(12-03-2020, 01:53 PM)Jym Wrote: I feel like we're screwed if KP isn't that 
You being so apprehensive to add long-term salary the past year makes a little more sense but then I don't get why you haven't pushed harder to trade KP for an upgrade

Because until Luka signs his extension, we're still living in a world where anything is possible. 

I don't mind an overpaid KP as a 3rd guy at all. Love him for that, in fact. 

And, to be clear, I don't need that 2nd guy to be better than him right away, especially not status wise. A young guy with an obvious ball-handling fit here and the potential to be the 2nd guy is enough to move forward, imo. 

If they don't get that guy (before Luka's extension), I probably WILL be the leader of team "trade Porzingis" as at that point, I believe that will be the only way forward.
This entire post is so far from reality. 

Your main concern is KP isn’t a ball handler? We have the best ball handler in the entire world. No meaningful minute of basketball should be played without the ball in his hands. Period. Obviously the MBT feels the same way. 

The guys you’re comparing him to aren’t even close. None of Maxi, Bertans, Ibaka and Tucker can both shoot at an elite level AND rim protect at the level of KP. Bam and AD are elite because they’re two of the best defenders in the game. KP is/will be a better shooter. Do you seriously think if Jokic were here that the offense would be ran through him with Luka on the court? Joker does that based on necessity. He’s the best they’ve got. 

You admit your post doesn’t even discuss the defensive end. Why on earth is offense even a topic of conversation? Straight from the horses mouth Rick is out there making jokes about the best offense in the galaxy and how it DOES NOT MATTER. 

Nothing matters without defense. KP going down means very little offensively. Without his rim protection we do not have a chance in the playoffs. It is 100% about his health. 

We will go as far as Luka takes us. All the talk in the FA/trade thread about sEcOnDaRy pLaYmAkEr. That’s such a small need that we can fill it with a guy off the streets like Burke for 3 mill a year. 2011 was won on defense and so will the next one. The MBT feels the same way
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#77
(12-03-2020, 03:53 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I wasn't directing that comment at you. I did read your longer post and I get what you are saying but I disagree. I realize KP isn't Dirk (altho most players aren't?) but I love his game and absolutely believe he's a max-level player. We didn't get to see 100% KP yet but I think we will get there. He isn't a guard and Rick doesn't like post-ups so its unlikely you are going to see a ton of action run through him like you might see Embiid get. But that's okay bc I don't think that style of basketball wins championships anymore anyway. I think KP is as much a star as any modern center can be a star. Certainly more than Gobert. Jokic is the best center in the league and I think KP is close. KAT, Embiid, Bam, Ayton don't do anything for me. I like KP's well rounded game and believe he is a star worth max-money.

Being "worth max money" is a funny thing...it's objectively true for someone like KP, but only when enough other pieces are in place to make it true. By the nature of that simple fact, one could argue that it's quite subjective, when all is said and done. 

I get what you're saying about post ups, and went to great lengths to point that out in my post. So, we can rule that out. 

But, I think it's extremely shortsighted to lock in a max player through whom the offense can't be run, unless you are then able to get a 2nd guy (in addition to Luka) through whom it CAN. So, to me, the options here are:

1) get that 2nd guy BEFORE Luka signs his extension, while you still have multiple plausible ways of doing it.
2) find a way that Porzingis can BECOME that guy (if not in the post, then SOMETHING)
3) look back in four years, realizing the Mavs don't have enough, going "NOW WHAT??" This is where Milwaukee is right now, essentially.

I don't like option #3, myself. 

As for your takes on the players I mentioned (you added KAT and Embiid, who I always forget, thanks and Ayton, who I don't think belongs in the conversation yet), it's cool to have them ranked in your own, personal order. I might disagree, but what's NOT up for debate is that all of those guys (Jokic, Adabayo, Davis, KAT and even Embiid) play an offensive role on their teams which utilizes their talents by handling the ball. They all do it in different ways, but they ALL do it. Last year in Dallas Porzingis did NOT.


#78
I don't think KP is overpaid at all. Would I rather have Jason Taytum at max money? Well maybe but then that's not really an option I don't think. Lakers are bit of an anomaly having 2 bigger players who play like guards but for the most part you win championships with very good playmakers 1-3.

So ideally you would have some big 2-way playmaking SF that is your 2nd best player. Is it possible to get said player? Maybe but that's not necessarily available atm. I think KP being the unique player he is gives you a lot of things in one package. We saw he could carry the offensive load when Luka was out. The Mavs/Rick will get better at fitting pieces around both Luka and KP to maximize their effectiveness. So I absolutely think Mavs can contend with Luka and KP as their best two players.


#79
(12-03-2020, 03:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: In NY, yes! He showed that kind of potential. 

Last year in Dallas, no. I'm still holding out (a little) hope, but I'm far from being comfortable that they have "enough" at the top of the roster to move forward with confidence. If you think I've missed some things in KP's game (that fit into Dallas' plan for him) then PLEASE, point them out! I would love to be wrong about this one. I am very concerned about this, and have been since right around the All Star break.
For sure in NY, and with that being the case, not sure why you don't point to RC's offense as the reason for it being less here as opposed to his ABILITY to do it. If he has the ABILITY, then it is on the coach to unlock it, especially with as much control as RC has on his team (not a bad thing, just a circumstance with which KP finds himself).

As far as here? To state again, I saw it when Luka went to the bench and KP showed much more ABILITY like he did in NY. There were moments of it with Luka on the floor, just not as much.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


#80
(12-03-2020, 04:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Being "worth max money" is a funny thing...it's objectively true for someone like KP, but only when enough other pieces are in place to make it true. By the nature of that simple fact, one could argue that it's quite subjective, when all is said and done. 

I get what you're saying about post ups, and went to great lengths to point that out in my post. So, we can rule that out. 

But, I think it's extremely shortsighted to lock in a max player through whom the offense can't be run, unless you are then able to get a 2nd guy (in addition to Luka) through whom it CAN. So, to me, the options here are:

1) get that 2nd guy BEFORE Luka signs his extension, while you still have multiple plausible ways of doing it.
2) find a way that Porzingis can BECOME that guy (if not in the post, then SOMETHING)
3) look back in four years, realizing the Mavs don't have enough, going "NOW WHAT??" This is where Milwaukee is right now, essentially.

I don't like option #3, myself. 

As for your takes on the players I mentioned (you added KAT and Embiid, who I always forget, thanks and Ayton, who I don't think belongs in the conversation yet), it's cool to have them ranked in your own, personal order. I might disagree, but what's NOT up for debate is that all of those guys (Jokic, Adabayo, Davis, KAT and even Embiid) play an offensive role on their teams which utilizes their talents by handling the ball. They all do it in different ways, but they ALL do it. Last year in Dallas Porzingis did NOT.

To me he's max money because he's not only a great player, he's an asset should you need to move him for a better fitting piece. It's another reason why he's not overpaid. If you traded KP you would get much more back than Dallas gave up which was almost nothing. Dallas essentially gave up DSJ who was a bust and two first rounders?

Now if you did trade KP you also probably wouldn't get top value either because frankly its hard to get that. Anthony Davis fetched the best package recently but he was also a great player. Paul George also fetched a really nice package but in both cases the team trading them away were forced into rebuild mode to an extent. Jrue got traded for picks but NO didn't improve by trading him away.

So for KP, if you can trade him for Giannis then sure that's great (not impossible that deal could happen one day...). Bradley Beal? Maybe. I am starting to wonder if he has gotten overrated the last couple of years. Who are you going to get that is going to be an upgrade over KP?

To me you would upgrade him by a combination of the player you get back + his replacement you get in FA. Like in a magical world where you could play Gobert in the playoffs down the stretch you could talk yourself into KP for Beal and then go sign Gobert.

All that to say I think in this case the MBT pulled a rabbit out of a hat getting absolutely the best player they could realistically get, a star, at a young age for pennies on the dollar in terms of assets given up. That's fantastic. Would I be open to moving him a later date? Maybe not but I'd have to see the deal. It's not like the Bucks are going to call you up on their own to pitch Giannis. Same with Taytum, same with most other players you might rather swap with KP.
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