Poll: Can you somewhat relate to OP´s opinion?
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Call me crazy, but...
#41
Still not sure how Giannis would fit in the lineup. Unless he takes on a complementary role (which is not happening), then I could see it working out.


#42
(10-30-2020, 07:24 PM)donzingis38 Wrote: Still not sure how Giannis would fit in the lineup. Unless he takes on a complementary role (which is not happening), then I could see it working out.

Luka
sharp shooter/ball handler
sharp shooter/wing defender
Giannis 
KP
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#43
(10-30-2020, 12:52 PM)omahen Wrote: Totally agree, that is a big question. From his perspective it has to come to from - "put better players around ME" to "I am not good enough to win (it all) on my own." That is huge for two time MVP. 


The thing is, if Giannis decides to meet with the Mavs, my pitch to him would be 

"Listen Giannis. You are a monster. You are good enough to get to the finals on your own if your team actually decides to spend money on a winner. You are this generations Shaq. But even Shaq needed his Kobe. We have our Kobe. And on top of having your Kobe as a sidekick, we can give you a unicorn with Dirk-lite shooting and all NBA defense. Also did I mention Luka is only 21 and KP is 26? We could keep them around you for the next 8 years. We also have an owner that will spend any amount necessary to win rings and is entrenched with basketball. We want to win at least 3 in a row. Only Russell, Jordan, and the Kobe/Shaq Lakers ever did it. With you, Luka, and KP, we think we can. "

I think playing to Giannis being Shaq and showing him that it's okay to have a duo to win will let him get past the mindset that him as an individual can't win. Luka/KP/Giannis has the potential to be an historic trio and that is what will be etched in NBA history.
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14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.


#44
(10-30-2020, 05:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:
(10-30-2020, 05:18 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: Since you are a Mavs fan, you prove my point  

I doubt Giannis is sitting right there thinking Luka is the better player and asit stands right now I think Giannis is overwhelmingly considered the better player of the two.
As fans of Luka we have the right to think otherwise ,nothing wrong in that. But it isn't the public opinion and I doubt it will be what Giannis is thinking

Yes, yes. I understand, trust me. 

What you're saying above is kind of MY point about what I got from your earlier post. I agree that the national perception of Giannis is that he's the better player NOW, reading through this conversation has led me to a conclusion (similar to you, I think) that it's probably really difficult for Giannis to make the decision to join someone like Luka. 

But I don't think he'll be considered the better player for much longer, either way. I watched a TON of Milwaukee this year, especially in the playoffs, and I can promise you that featuring him as a ball-handler offensively in the half court is a DEAD END. He's one year away from suffering the national perception of "Giannis can't get it done in the playoffs." As Dirk fans, we are familiar with that nonsense.

Let's dissect this conversation into smaller pieces
We are talking about Giannis to the Mavs, right? And how he sees himself with Luka and his legacy etc
I think for this, the discussion can be done in 3 parts: A-Leaving Bucks  B-Choosing Mavs  C-Staying with the Mavs. 

A-Leaving Bucks:
This has nothing to do with the Mavs really, it is up to him and the team there. If he wins a chip or at least reach a final he is staying, if he is too emotionally connected to them he will stay too (likely on short deals), this is the part you just pray


B-Choosing Mavs:
I simply think there are few reasons to choose Mavs: 

i-As I explained earlier, his most important target is winning a title, this should triumph anything and everything. If he doesn't win after leaving he can tell his legacy goodbye
ii-In his eyes, he will most likely thinks he will continue to be the better player, I think you disagree with that but I think most superstars of his caliber believe that anyway. Right now he is out there trying to dethrone Lebron, not worrying about Luka
iii-Luka is the new king of half court, and as you mention that is Giannis weakest point, which IMO is a strong selling point. We have a player that covers your weakness, and will make life too easy for you, we have elite coach and good supporting cast. Our biggest weakness is defense and he can elevate us on his own in this aspect.
iv-As SleepingHero said, the selling point will be you guys are going to be a Magic/Kareem or Kobe/Shaq duo. You share success and complement each other. It is a win win situation for both. 
v-The competition: Heat has great coach and probably a better management, and more recent success, but  no player of Luka caliber and their super star will be 32 in 2021. Lakers aren't serious contender to get him with Davis and Lebron there. Clippers to join Kawhi? May be, but not sure about that.
Overall I think we are in very good position to get him if he decides to leave the Bucks, dare to say we are the favorites. 
I think having Luka is a selling point, he will want to win and if Luka is someone who competes with him on being face of the league, it means bigger chance to win.

C-Keeping Giannis, if he arrives, for long term: 
Well, this where the argument that Luka might be stealing the spotlight looks valid, but I don't think it is anyway: 
Look at superstars joining super teams, or even being part of it. Lebron left a great situation in Miami and joined Cavs to win somewhere else (and because Cavs had better assets too, no doubt) and same for KD with GSW. Miami was Wade team and GSW is always Curry team. But then again look at Kyrie, when Lebron joined it became Lebron's team and after winning a ring he wanted to have his own team. 
My point is, whether Giannis -at Dallas-became the best or 2nd best player in the team he will be a rental. That is why the league don't fight super teams anymore, because it is a 3-4 years super team before it folds for the next one. It was Miami and OKC, then Cavs and GSW, then Lakers and Clippers and it could be the Mavs and Denver in 2021 and it will be another team on 2025
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#45
Other teams achieve championships with building teams with multiple stars. If one does not equal this approach, one plays with disadvantage compared to others, and this is not good and not fair. Indeed a championship would be even better if won in this way without a super team. But its not fair. The fair thing is to have equal opportunity as warriors, lakers, etc. equal terms and then let the best team win. 

Of course, getting the best player possible in the FA is necessary and important, and fair in every sense. Getting Giannis would be really great for the Mavs and the league in general.


#46
Super teams happen, but they aren’t the norm as much as has been talked about. Three max salaries hamstrings a team into having mostly vet min slots left. Sure players can flock to play for the team that would be the favorite to win it all, and don’t mind getting the vet min to get their rings. IMO and for this team, it shouldn’t be heavily planned on like talk around here makes it seem they are.

That’s why I’m relieved to see the headlines start to say our FO is basically trying to take their shot now as opposed to the same-ole, same-ole of “oh it didn’t happen this year? Well just keep money clear and see that big name over there? That’s the guy that’s gonna come here...next year.” It has literally been that way since the championship.

We mostly created the opportunities to get our two stars. Not by hoping the stars themselves say “yes” and planning for that outcome 2-3 years in advance (feels like we’ve been talking about the Giannis dream for longer than that even), but by putting in the work and having the luck that we had some of the right assets to entice a team to make the deal.

I will continue to say, keep building the best team we can and if another star finally says “yes” in free agency, then go to work to figure out the how! 

We organically built up some pretty good assets at this point, but we have some glaring holes in our team build. I want to use what assets we have to fill those holes. Miami showed that if you have stellar defensive players, you don’t have to have all the stars on the team to look like a championship team. LA showed that 2 stars can make it happen as long as you have good play from the other positions (not some formula of what is thought of as the future of the league in having all wings).

All I’m trying to say is, let’s take our shot every year in FA and the draft. Stop worrying about what’s available to be had next year and hope and pray for that scenario to happen in our favor. Stop planning so hard for future deals, and make happen what you can make happen to make the team better now!

We need smaller incremental upgrades at this point, not huge swinging change...until that one guy says “yes”!
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


#47
(10-30-2020, 10:29 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:
(10-30-2020, 12:52 PM)omahen Wrote: Totally agree, that is a big question. From his perspective it has to come to from - "put better players around ME" to "I am not good enough to win (it all) on my own." That is huge for two time MVP. 


The thing is, if Giannis decides to meet with the Mavs, my pitch to him would be 

"Listen Giannis. You are a monster. You are good enough to get to the finals on your own if your team actually decides to spend money on a winner. You are this generations Shaq. But even Shaq needed his Kobe. We have our Kobe. And on top of having your Kobe as a sidekick, we can give you a unicorn with Dirk-lite shooting and all NBA defense. Also did I mention Luka is only 21 and KP is 26? We could keep them around you for the next 8 years. We also have an owner that will spend any amount necessary to win rings and is entrenched with basketball. We want to win at least 3 in a row. Only Russell, Jordan, and the Kobe/Shaq Lakers ever did it. With you, Luka, and KP, we think we can. "

I think playing to Giannis being Shaq and showing him that it's okay to have a duo to win will let him get past the mindset that him as an individual can't win. Luka/KP/Giannis has the potential to be an historic trio and that is what will be etched in NBA history.

This is exactly right.  The talent, the age, the on-court fit, the financial support of ownership with a proven, top-3 head coach.  That trio, if healthy, could go down as one of the absolute best of all time. I know that GA is a beast on offense - especially in the open court - but I dream of him and KP manning the 4/5 spots on defense!  OMG.  The offensive fit is impeccable, with KP the offensive 4 and GA the offensive 5.  You'd probably always want Luka or GA on the floor to run the offense through.  Just so versatile and can play so many styles.  Having good 3D players on this roster would be a premium for the MBT to fill out so that the floor could be spaced. Could see this draft picking up a couple of those.

As many open 3's that a Luka/GA led team could create, I could also see the Mavs leading the league in paint points with all of the layup/dunks those two create.


  


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