Poll: Can you somewhat relate to OP´s opinion?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
yes
57.89%
no
42.11%
Total
19 vote(s)
100%
* You voted for this item.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Call me crazy, but...
#1
I don´t want Giannis to come to Dallas. I said it.

I don´t want create a super-team, even if they win 8 chips in the next 10 years. It just seems so unorganic and doesn´t have the narrative, I want a winning team to have.

Of course it´s easy, if Giannis agrees. Fill out the roster and hope for no injuries: should be automatic 2-3 titles. Yeah we would cheer  and be happy, but let me tell you that none of them would feel like the 2011 title - I´m 100% certain of that.

Even if Luka was still the main man (as he probably would), I want him to figure it out on his own. Let him fail, add pieces, try stuff and eventually succeed organically (of course the elephant in the room is Luka leaving after 7-8 years)

But even if you asked me today to choose:

a) You have 8 years for Luka to stay here and win a title. If he wins, he stays here for his career. If not, it´s certain, that he leaves after his second conctract.

b) Get Giannis and crush the league.

I´m not sure, if wouldn´t choose a) anyway.

Call me crazy. But the narrative of winning a title as a superteam is just super lame. That´s my point of view and I stand by it. Downvote please, if needed lol.
[-] The following 3 users Like Thukydides's post:
  • FunkBoreland, Kammrath, Mapka


#2
So what do I vote if I want to downvote? Smile


#3
Just vote "no" in the poll, I guess :-)


#4
Not for all the same reasons, but yes, I’ll be happy when 21 is over and we can move on to getting some other big name...
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


#5
A-You are crazy
B-Super teams are the reality of the new NBA , untill the NBA step in and say we need to stop it.
So you have 2 options:
1-You create them
2-You lose your star for another team creating their own super team

I choose option one, and we neither have the assets to trade for another healthy super star,nor do I trust the team to draft another one.
[-] The following 1 user Likes khaled1987's post:
  • Scott41theMavs


#6
I get the sentimentality, and somewhat agree. I can relate on an emotional level.

However, I do not think Luka/Giannis/KP would win 8/10 championships (I know you were using hyperbole on purpose there). I don't think they'd be GUARANTEED even one. They would definitely vault into a spot among the favorites, but would they be better than all of the other great teams being built right now? Possibly, but I'm not sure. They would STILL need some luck and lots of hard work along the way.

The point being: it's not a choice between "buying rings" or "winning them the right way." The MOST likely scenario is "never winning one again." In a world where people GET PAID to try to beat you, you have to fight and claw with every weapon you can muster. ANY team who wins an NBA title deserves it. It's the most difficult title to get in American pro sports, probably.
[-] The following 1 user Likes KillerLeft's post:
  • Scott41theMavs


#7
Are you Tim Cato?  Smile

Either way is fine with me.  I would love to be the dominant team (Giannis here) and I would love for Luka to be the guy and win.  I am happy with both choices because Mavs basketball will be (is) fun to watch as long as Luka is here.


#8
You are crazy. 

But that's okay. 

I want Giannis on this team. I would take the years of dominance and demonstrating to Luka that we are the best place to stay. 

I think a key difference between this offseason and other "goin fishin" offseasons is that I won't be mad however if Giannis doesn't choose to sign here. I think Luka+KP is enough of a foundation to win a title (I believe in Luka that much). We don't NEED a big fish. But Giannis coming here would just expedite the title expectations.
[-] The following 1 user Likes SleepingHero's post:
  • Scott41theMavs
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.


#9
I think it's a little crazy to NOT want GA here. You should never turn down talent.

That said, I see the sentiment behind it as I have also advocated for keeping the guys together and letting everything simmer rather than turning over 80% of the roster every season. Stability leads to success, case-in-point = San Antonio.

There would be no guarantees, but the gravity of those three would pull in a lot of FAs to try and get their ring. Maybe cut down on some of the offseason wailing when we don't get someone's favorite.

FWIW, I'm in heaven that the Mavs are meaningful again. That they are usually expected to win, rather than just be a scrimmage for the other team. That I can feel energized when they win (and even when they lose). That I'm usually a little grouchy the morning after a loss, because you can feel that they are just. right. there. That they could use a few additions, but the base 10 (when healthy) have proven they can play with anyone else's 10. That I'm ready to start the next season NOW!
[-] The following 2 users Like michaeltex's post:
  • KillerLeft, Scott41theMavs


#10
I somewhat agree with the sentiments, but the reality is a superteam will likely form somewhere and I'd rather it happen in our backyard.  So far they don't last anyway.  LeBron bolted back to the Cavs after just 2 titles, and same with Durant.  So I wouldn't mind 2-3 superteam seasons.  Could be a good reminder to free agents that we can be a nice destination.
[-] The following 2 users Like radioaktiv's post:
  • KillerLeft, Scott41theMavs


#11
Thanks for the replies! I thought about it a bit and if they actually signed Giannis, I´d probably be absolutely hyped. Just to see the kind of basketball those three could generate would be something else. So I guess watching the games would be awesome, just the titles not as sweet, but we are just spoiled by that 2011 run. Which franchise has gone on any run as beautiful with so many nice stories (Dirk, Kidd, Barea a starter, Tyson dominating, hell even Stevenson and Cardinal). So I guess as many said, that´s just not what the league is anymore and you have to accept the reality. Still wouldn´t feel as great and I´d prefer Luka winning alone.


#12
2011 was a Cinderella story and something like this will happen very rarely. Too many factors have to combine to make it happen. So counting on Luka, KP and a team of roleplayers to pull of the same thing will probably end in frustration. Gimme Giannis Wink
[-] The following 2 users Like Halfnir's post:
  • KillerLeft, radioaktiv


#13
I wouldn't assume Luka will be satisfied with one title. Not everyone is Dirk, he had a unicorn mindset.


#14
(10-29-2020, 09:34 PM)cow Wrote: I wouldn't assume Luka will be satisfied with one title. 

Nor should the Mavs be, now that they have the guy who might be the face of the post-Lebron NBA. 

There are only like 6-8 guys like this in the HISTORY of the sport. The Lakers have had 3-4 of them and the Celtics have had two. Everyone in the Mavs community needs to check their mediocre mindsets at the door and think differently, starting a year ago. This is not an opportunity to "win another championship." It's an opportunity to propel the franchise forward into the "relevant inner circle" of teams in the NBA that actually matter. Big time.

If the Mavericks (or their fans) aren't thinking big enough to create (or expect) a DYNASTY, they are stupid, stupid, stupid, and they won't have enough to show for Luka being here when the dust clears.
[-] The following 6 users Like KillerLeft's post:
  • fifteenth, Mavsfan12, omahen, radioaktiv, Scott41theMavs, Sigma4Life


#15
I totally agree about KillerLeft mindset. We have to think big. However, after spending some time thinking, it doesn't really make sense for Giannis to Dallas move to happen.

Giannis is a two time MVP. If you bring him to Dallas, do you bring him as MVP and Luka plays Beta or do you bring him as Beta to Luka? I find it hard to accept this will work long term. You are merging two alphas - which one is big enough to swallow his ego? 

Look at Durant in GSW. He came as Alpha, but he was never accepted as the Alpha in GSW, which eventually made him unhappy and he left. In the Lakers, LeBron is a clear Alpha, that will resign his position in a couple of years to the Beta. That's why the former Alpha (Davis) accepted to be Beta for a while.


#16
(10-30-2020, 07:43 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree about KillerLeft mindset. We have to think big. However, after spending some time thinking, it doesn't really make sense for Giannis to Dallas move to happen.

Giannis is a two time MVP. If you bring him to Dallas, do you bring him as MVP and Luka plays Beta or do you bring him as Beta to Luka? I find it hard to accept this will work long term. You are merging two alphas - which one is big enough to swallow his ego? 

Look at Durant in GSW. He came as Alpha, but he was never accepted as the Alpha in GSW, which eventually made him unhappy and he left. In the Lakers, LeBron is a clear Alpha, that will resign his position in a couple of years to the Beta. That's why the former Alpha (Davis) accepted to be Beta for a while.

I think Davis was not an alpha the way we use this term. He was the best player, but Jrue was the lockerroom leader. 

KD got his rings and went on - that's not too bad. 

Two alphas can go the Kobe/Shaq way. But it can go the LeBron/Wade way too. ( I think Giannis is Wade here.)


#17
Giannis would obviously be risking a huge hit to his "legacy" (for whatever that's worth) because A) he'd be joining someone else's team and B) Luka would have the ball in his hands, which would make it impossible for it ever not to be Luka's team. I would think Giannis' days of winning the MVP would be over, for sure. Not sure if that matters to him or not. It probably does on some level. 

The thing that truly makes me wonder about whether he'll leave Milwaukee is the whole "ball handler" issue, actually. Giannis can clearly handle the ball just fine, as he is a one man terror in transition like the league has seldom seen, if ever. But, Milwaukee's solution in the half court is to play him on ball, too, like he's Lebron. I think that approach has a clear and fairly low ceiling (could be dead wrong), but does HE feel that way? Is the team playing that way because they're not smart enough to give him a better playmaker, or has HE, the star, influenced them to build around him in THAT role? If it's the latter, then Dallas has ZERO CHANCE of convincing him to come here, regardless of what's best for him. 

Regardless of any of the above, I wouldn't give up on this path until he is officially off the board. As we've discussed for months, not suggesting an approach where that's the ONLY way you can succeed, but I'm also not closing that door if I can help it.
[-] The following 2 users Like KillerLeft's post:
  • Mapka, Scott41theMavs


#18
(10-30-2020, 07:43 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree about KillerLeft mindset. We have to think big. However, after spending some time thinking, it doesn't really make sense for Giannis to Dallas move to happen.

Giannis is a two time MVP. If you bring him to Dallas, do you bring him as MVP and Luka plays Beta or do you bring him as Beta to Luka? I find it hard to accept this will work long term. You are merging two alphas - which one is big enough to swallow his ego? 

Look at Durant in GSW. He came as Alpha, but he was never accepted as the Alpha in GSW, which eventually made him unhappy and he left. In the Lakers, LeBron is a clear Alpha, that will resign his position in a couple of years to the Beta. That's why the former Alpha (Davis) accepted to be Beta for a while.
Of course, getting a ring makes accepting the Beta role a lot easier. Just ask Chris Bosh about the Miami days. ( But he never made it back to being an Alpha)

But you make a good point about how the dynamic will work (or not) between Luka/Giannis. Not said is the effect on KP. He's gone from Alpha to Co-Alpha (right after trade) to Beta. Now he gets pushed down another rung? There's going to have to be huge early success to keep everyone happy, and even then it might not work.
[-] The following 1 user Likes michaeltex's post:
  • ItsGoTime


#19
(10-30-2020, 07:43 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree about KillerLeft mindset. We have to think big. However, after spending some time thinking, it doesn't really make sense for Giannis to Dallas move to happen.

Giannis is a two time MVP. If you bring him to Dallas, do you bring him as MVP and Luka plays Beta or do you bring him as Beta to Luka? I find it hard to accept this will work long term. You are merging two alphas - which one is big enough to swallow his ego? 

Look at Durant in GSW. He came as Alpha, but he was never accepted as the Alpha in GSW, which eventually made him unhappy and he left. In the Lakers, LeBron is a clear Alpha, that will resign his position in a couple of years to the Beta. That's why the former Alpha (Davis) accepted to be Beta for a while.

Help me out omahen. I thought that basketball was played in most of the rest of the world (outside the U.S.) with more of a team mindset. I was born in the U.S. and have always lived here, but I've always liked hearing about this team mindset, because I prefer to think that way as well. I abhor the "one alpha" mindset. I think it's silly. 

Did Magic's or Kareem's legacy take a hit because the played together? And I don't think the Durant leaving is a good example, because he's just flat out a weird dude, and may very well have left because of social media comments. On the court, KD and Steph worked. Players don't have to be insecure like KD. 

I would hope that Luka and Giannis could actually help each other reach their individual and combined potential, rather than the other way around. The Mavs would be better if Luka didn't have to dominate the ball like Harden. Luka's prime will last longer if the Mavs are more diverse. And Luka will win more championships if he can play with other great players.

I agree with Killer above. Let's assemble Magic/Kareem/Worthy and not worry about whether Magic/Kareen/Worthy are too insecure to play together.
[-] The following 2 users Like fifteenth's post:
  • radioaktiv, Scott41theMavs


#20
(10-30-2020, 11:20 AM)fifteenth Wrote: I thought that basketball was played in most of the rest of the world (outside the U.S.) with more of a team mindset. I was born in the U.S. and have always lived here, but I've always liked hearing about this team mindset, because I prefer to think that way as well. I abhor the "one alpha" mindset. I think it's silly.


I can speak for Europe, I am not familiar with situation in other parts of the world. It is more of a team sport, but the reason imho is that there is far, far, far less money involved. And what brings money is team success, not star players. I don't think teams get considerable income from merchandise sales and the only way to be a star in fans eyes is if you bring team success. Thats why european leagues are not star driven. There are less games and each game is usually important. Fans are much more pationate and every loss is "the end of the world". 

That's why coach is king and European guys are used to being yelled at, which it doesn't seem to be the case in USA - a lot of US players complain about this part of European basketball. If you make two stupid moves, european coach will bench you for a couple of minutes no matter what your name is or how much you are paid. If you are lazy, you will be benched. There is absolutely no way european coach would watch DeAndre Jordans lack of effort he showed in Dallas for more than half of a season. He would be benched after five games and they would probably reach an agreement to terminate contract.

NBA is all about stars. If you are a star you get media attention, your merchandise is sold and you get more endorsement money. Fans seem to follow stars and accept lack of success as something normal. Not to mention all the negative influence of social media. My guess would be, that was far less of that in the 80s so stars could coexist. Can you think of a more recent example, where two players shared equal star status on one team? I think as much as players can be unselfish, the star status is important. The whole league is designed this way and either they like it or not, it is affecting every one of them.


  


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

Call me crazy, but...00