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BLM the official message of the NBA
#1
Previously I have made a statement as to why I will not watch the nba this season and why I do not support BLM.  Here are a few articles that show how problematic these protests have been.  Do ethics matter to sports fans?  They do for me because I am against injustice and mistreatment of people which right now is aimed at people who chose police as their occupation. 

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/chicago-lo...ds-inside/

https://nypost.com/article/chicago-cop-r...pe-report/
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#2
(08-13-2020, 08:31 PM)haveitall Wrote: Previously I have made a statement as to why I will not watch the nba this season and why I do not support BLM.  Here are a few articles that show how problematic these protests have been.  Do ethics matter to sports fans?  They do for me because I am against injustice and mistreatment of people which right now is aimed at people who chose police as their occupation. 

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/chicago-lo...ds-inside/

https://nypost.com/article/chicago-cop-r...pe-report/

As a "black life" myself, I feel you.   The support many express for BLM is more for the slogan and what it directly implies i.e. a cry against blatant race based discrimination such as seen in some particularly visible cases. 

Most sane people don't appear to really support or even pay attention to these moves to defund and attack police officers.  It's very unfortunate that these things are being conflated and even more tragic that whole segments of the media simply don't cover it.  The result is entire portions of american population don't really see the same news stories at other segments. 
Much of the country couldn't accurately  recognize the extent of what is happening to police departments and officers because its not being covered on news outlets they watch and follow.  Sad


#3
(08-13-2020, 09:50 PM)Dahlsim Wrote:
(08-13-2020, 08:31 PM)haveitall Wrote: Previously I have made a statement as to why I will not watch the nba this season and why I do not support BLM.  Here are a few articles that show how problematic these protests have been.  Do ethics matter to sports fans?  They do for me because I am against injustice and mistreatment of people which right now is aimed at people who chose police as their occupation. 

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/chicago-lo...ds-inside/

https://nypost.com/article/chicago-cop-r...pe-report/

As a "black life" myself, I feel you.   The support many express for BLM is more for the slogan and what it directly implies i.e. a cry against blatant race based discrimination such as seen in some particularly visible cases. 

Most sane people don't appear to really support or even pay attention to these moves to defund and attack police officers.  It's very unfortunate that these things are being conflated and even more tragic that whole segments of the media simply don't cover it.  The result is entire portions of american population don't really see the same news stories at other segments. 
Much of the country couldn't accurately  recognize the extent of what is happening to police departments and officers because its not being covered on news outlets they watch and follow.  Sad

I actually see and hear plenty of black people who are horrified by the violence and looting. For example the group that stopped looters in Chicago. It’s hard to end racism. The only way is to meet people and talk and be open minded. But to me what needs to happen is an emphasis on the fact that blacks are Americans first (the ones born here). Most have been here longer than most whites (I am first generation immigrant). Emphasizing the word black segregates blacks I the minds of the public. It adds to division, right now if you hear what most people are saying it makes things worse. If police reform is the goal to avoid another George type death than try to make body cams universal, hire more black cops, hire top cops who are black. But don’t create divisiveness especially with abuse toward police.
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#4
Quote:I actually see and hear plenty of black people who are horrified by the violence and looting. 


Right, which is why most of the news media makes sure they don't see it much if they see it at all for the ones that only watch the left biased channels and media outlets.  Those are the majority of outlets, including the entertainment complex of which the NBA is very much a part.  The NBA is carrying the anti racism message front and center. 

Do you see much or any NBA campaign against related looting of business owners and their violence against citizens (including black citizens) and police officers and their families? 
Many millions of people just don't see it much, so they think clearly it must not be that big of a problem.  Confused

Those in the public that don't see the looting and horrific violence much, don't know the extent of the problem (unless it gets to them personally :-0 ) and they don't really connect it to BLM.


#5
(08-14-2020, 11:41 AM)Dahlsim Wrote:
Quote:I actually see and hear plenty of black people who are horrified by the violence and looting. 


Right, which is why most of the news media makes sure they don't see it much if they see it at all for the ones that only watch the left biased channels and media outlets.  Those are the majority of outlets, including the entertainment complex of which the NBA is very much a part.  The NBA is carrying the anti racism message front and center. 

Do you see much or any NBA campaign against related looting of business owners and their violence against citizens (including black citizens) and police officers and their families? 
Many millions of people just don't see it much, so they think clearly it must not be that big of a problem.  Confused

Those in the public that don't see the looting and horrific violence much, don't know the extent of the problem (unless it gets to them personally :-0 ) and they don't really connect it to BLM.
100% agree.
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#6
On this topic, in case anyone missed this ... 
NBA Player Jonathan Isaac Only Player to Not Kneel with BLM, Sites Gospel


Quote:“For me,” Isaac explained, “black lives are supported through the Gospel, all lives are supported through the Gospel.”

“My life has been supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is made in the image of God and we all share in His glory. 




#7
(08-19-2020, 02:47 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: On this topic, in case anyone missed this ... 
NBA Player Jonathan Isaac Only Player to Not Kneel with BLM, Sites Gospel


Quote:“For me,” Isaac explained, “black lives are supported through the Gospel, all lives are supported through the Gospel.”

“My life has been supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is made in the image of God and we all share in His glory. 



Wow, wow. This is complicated to comment on!

Isaac is a stud. It's not easy stand out like that. Well done Jonathan Isaac. I support your message. 

The complicated thing is that I absolutely support the phrase "Black Lives Matter". Of course all lives matter, but sometimes there is a need to heal a wound or right a wrong. 

So I'm going to take the possibly odd position of supporting the guys kneeling and the guy standing!
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#8
(08-20-2020, 05:50 PM)fifteenth Wrote:
(08-19-2020, 02:47 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: On this topic, in case anyone missed this ... 
NBA Player Jonathan Isaac Only Player to Not Kneel with BLM, Sites Gospel


Quote:“For me,” Isaac explained, “black lives are supported through the Gospel, all lives are supported through the Gospel.”

“My life has been supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is made in the image of God and we all share in His glory. 

Wow, wow. This is complicated to comment on!

Isaac is a stud. It's not easy stand out like that. Well done Jonathan Isaac. I support your message. 

The complicated thing is that I absolutely support the phrase "Black Lives Matter". Of course all lives matter, but sometimes there is a need to heal a wound or right a wrong. 

So I'm going to take the possibly odd position of supporting the guys kneeling and the guy standing!

I like your position as well 15th.  I agree that highlighting Black Lives in particular comes because of that need to heal wounds and right wrongs.  Well said. 

I see the rub coming between the general message that is so well represented by the phrase vs. a closer examination of the organization going by that name and the entirety of what they stand for. 

BLM is very much not a "Gospel" friendly organization if you review the mission statement and its roots, so I'm glad to see Isaac highlight his perspective as an unashamed Christian.
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#9
(08-20-2020, 10:11 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: I see the rub coming between the general message that is so well represented by the phrase vs. a closer examination of the organization going by that name and the entirety of what they stand for. 


I agree with this, and I see it too. For my personal response to the George Floyd murder, and the way it brought the wounds that need to be healed and the wrongs that need to addressed front and center, is to focus on the larger issues, the wounds and the wrongs, healing and justice (for what small part I could play) rather than an organization or politics. The history, the wound, the wrongs, the way forward, in my mind, are all way bigger than any organization, and way bigger than today's polticial discussions.
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#10
My biggest concern is that the most famous and outspoken player in the league, who seems to have a wide swath of our population believing his comments, seems to be either be not very bright, or just deliberately disingenuous.  Lebron is just continually inflaming things and making things worse and worse.  He comments on situations immediately after they occur and before all the facts come out.  And he pretends that the few horrible incidents that have occurred, and yes there have been such incidents, represent an epidemic of such events in the US, while in reality they are extremely rare. 

In comparison to the number of these travesties, how many black lives have been saved by having the police presence in the US?  It could be argued that hundreds of innocent black lives in Chicago would have been saved if they had MORE police on the ground.  I just wish Lebron would be more circumspect and look at the actual facts before making unfounded and presumptuous pronouncements about specific incidents and police in general in the US.
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#11
You can have any political view or be of any color but how can you not be outrage over this?  No one not one person in the nba except Jonathan Isaac has denounced this.  


https://mynorthwest.com/2114190/rantz-ri...aled-door/

(08-26-2020, 06:28 PM)mtrot Wrote: My biggest concern is that the most famous and outspoken player in the league, who seems to have a wide swath of our population believing his comments, seems to be either be not very bright, or just deliberately disingenuous.  Lebron is just continually inflaming things and making things worse and worse.  He comments on situations immediately after they occur and before all the facts come out.  And he pretends that the few horrible incidents that have occurred, and yes there have been such incidents, represent an epidemic of such events in the US, while in reality they are extremely rare. 

In comparison to the number of these travesties, how many black lives have been saved by having the police presence in the US?  It could be argued that hundreds of innocent black lives in Chicago would have been saved if they had MORE police on the ground.  I just wish Lebron would be more circumspect and look at the actual facts before making unfounded and presumptuous pronouncements about specific incidents and police in general in the US.

To me there are two things going on:
1. Problems with the police and their bias/corruption.  This is an important issue and should be addressed otherwise you turn into Russia where people prepare money when stopped by the police.  Defunding them will actually make things worse as honest cops will be squeezed out.
2. Socialism and civil unrest, aka angry burning mob.  Here is basically a group of people who don't have much don't have jobs and are angry and ready to take it out on anyone. 

The country is a powder keg and the corporations (such as the nba)  are selling out to the socialists.
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#12
https://twitter.com/larryelder/status/12...0128190464
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41,127


#13
(08-26-2020, 11:12 PM)haveitall Wrote: You can have any political view or be of any color but how can you not be outrage over this?  No one not one person in the nba except Jonathan Isaac has denounced this.  


https://mynorthwest.com/2114190/rantz-ri...aled-door/

(08-26-2020, 06:28 PM)mtrot Wrote: My biggest concern is that the most famous and outspoken player in the league, who seems to have a wide swath of our population believing his comments, seems to be either be not very bright, or just deliberately disingenuous.  Lebron is just continually inflaming things and making things worse and worse.  He comments on situations immediately after they occur and before all the facts come out.  And he pretends that the few horrible incidents that have occurred, and yes there have been such incidents, represent an epidemic of such events in the US, while in reality they are extremely rare. 

In comparison to the number of these travesties, how many black lives have been saved by having the police presence in the US?  It could be argued that hundreds of innocent black lives in Chicago would have been saved if they had MORE police on the ground.  I just wish Lebron would be more circumspect and look at the actual facts before making unfounded and presumptuous pronouncements about specific incidents and police in general in the US.

To me there are two things going on:
1. Problems with the police and their bias/corruption.  This is an important issue and should be addressed otherwise you turn into Russia where people prepare money when stopped by the police.  Defunding them will actually make things worse as honest cops will be squeezed out.
2. Socialism and civil unrest, aka angry burning mob.  Here is basically a group of people who don't have much don't have jobs and are angry and ready to take it out on anyone. 

The country is a powder keg and the corporations (such as the nba)  are selling out to the socialists.

This is a problem when the sports leagues double also as political organizations officially backing positions that are being actively debated and litigated in the wider community. 
The problem is the NBA is not organized to facilitate debate on multiple sides of an issue.  It is one thing for individual players to express their viewpoints as citizens.  They clearly have bigger platforms than most of us to speak from.  Good for them. 

Its an entirely different thing when the NBA as an entertainment sports entity takes official and active positions on political and moral issues that are controversial. Now fans that come together to enjoy and discuss the sports cannot come together for that common enjoyment without having positions pushed at them.  The positions are pushed in a social environment where differing viewpoints are not really welcome, so these organizations emerge from private meetings with their own plans and platforms for political action.  
The NBA is almost by definition now no longer a sports entertainment entity but a political entity empowered by its entertainment value.   

Rational points deserve debate, research and examination among the public and their elected representatives.  More than one side of an issue must be addressed or the suppressed viewpoints can only end up surfacing in violent outbursts from sides that don't feel they are being heard any other way.
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#14
Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging.  It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better.  If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated. 

What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law?  And to stop resisting arrest?  And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs?  What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard?  The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't.  It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks. 

The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.
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#15
(08-30-2020, 09:49 PM)mtrot Wrote: Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging.  It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better.  If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated. 

What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law?  And to stop resisting arrest?  And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs?  What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard?  The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't.  It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks. 

The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.

mtrot, if you'd like to say that the NBA should do more to help black communities deal with problems that plague them, then I don't think that's unreasonable.  But I have two comments about that.

1. NBA players and black athletes in other sports are in the fight and trying to help black communities with problems other than police violence against black Americans.  They fund schools, they build gyms and activity centers that will house after school programs, they speak at schools, they fund scholarships, they mentor. So it's a mistake to say they don't do the things you ask for.

2. I believe it's also a mistake to blame violence towards black folks on other social challenges that exist in the black community.  Those two things shouldn't be conflated. 

I have more thoughts but it's too late. Maybe tomorrow.


#16
(08-30-2020, 09:49 PM)mtrot Wrote: Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging.  It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better.  If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated. 

What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law?  And to stop resisting arrest?  And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs?  What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard?  The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't.  It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks. 

The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.

You make some excellent points mtrot.  On the one hand I feel proud of the young men of the NBA that are standing up and showing passion for their brothers showing up in disturbing incident after incident across America.   
I'm glad as an African American myself that they don't simply retreat into their comfortable salaries and celebrity enclaves and just watch the brothers and sisters of their own communities die. 

The problem is we have to understand that young NBA players don't necessarily have the right answers to the problems that plague their communities.  They have emotional, visceral reactions just as many of us do but why should we think that the NBA is best equipped to hold the right people accountable for what is going wrong

Quote:So it's a mistake to say they don't do the things you ask for.

They no doubt do some good things to help and support their communities.  That doesn't mean they are best addressing the root problems.  In fact the way things continue to deteriorate suggests that the best things are not being done enough.  What is being done, has not been working.  Do they really know the reasons why that is the case? 

How much time and energy are these young men and the NBA business owners spending thoroughly examining all sides of the issues and the root causes of the problems they are protesting? 

The NBA was and is organized to entertain America.  They have proven to be very good at that as they have spent many years collecting information and developing processes for that purpose. 
Why do they or we think they can also push and promote the best legal and moral positions and push specific elected candidates with the best decision making processes.   

Having the right to do something doesn't make someone the best equipped to do something.

Does the NBA and NBA players understand that their support for the slogan also support an organization that is fueling this sort of "free speech'" in the nation's capital? 

A BLM leader is encouraging this crowd of protesters to fight the DC cops on the frontlines. Saying he’s “ready to put them in their graves”  
This speech took place on Black Lives Matter Avenue in Washington DC.
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#17
(08-30-2020, 11:49 PM)fifteenth Wrote:
(08-30-2020, 09:49 PM)mtrot Wrote: Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging.  It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better.  If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated. 

What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law?  And to stop resisting arrest?  And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs?  What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard?  The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't.  It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks. 

The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.

mtrot, if you'd like to say that the NBA should do more to help black communities deal with problems that plague them, then I don't think that's unreasonable.  But I have two comments about that.

1. NBA players and black athletes in other sports are in the fight and trying to help black communities with problems other than police violence against black Americans.  They fund schools, they build gyms and activity centers that will house after school programs, they speak at schools, they fund scholarships, they mentor. So it's a mistake to say they don't do the things you ask for.

2. I believe it's also a mistake to blame violence towards black folks on other social challenges that exist in the black community.  Those two things shouldn't be conflated. 

I have more thoughts before it's too late. Maybe tomorrow.
I disagree.  I don't think athletes do enough.  Nor do the CEO's.  For the most part the amount donated is paltry.  Its all publicity stunts.  As far as blame we can start with the idolization of athletes that the NBA sells.  Athletes, especially basketball are sold as the dream job to urban youth, a very tiny portion of which will be successful enough to make money as professionals.  Regular jobs which bring a lot more wealth to the community such as doctors, lawyers, accountants are looked down upon, or just no popular.  Which brings to mind an interview with Derozan where he said that hed be in jail or dead if it wasn't for basketball.  Well for each Derozan there are 1000's of people just like him, in jail or dead.  If the NBA truly thinks black lives matter, than find a way to make life better for kids in the hood.  What they do is perpetuate athlete worship while giving away a few breadcrumbs.


#18
I think one of the things that is getting lost in this is all the blaming going on. There is no way you can lump in a group of people, be it police, politicians, blacks, whites, any color of our one human race, blame that group and then expect results. There is a lot of blaming going on right now and where we are is where it's gotten us, not far. For years we've been talking about all these movements are at least making people have this discussion. That is literally what comes out of this movement, people like us...talking.

We need accountability in this nation. Our police force has run for way too long without enough accountability. Our politicians have gone far too far without any accountability. After watching that video Dahlsim posted, BLM seems like they haven't been given enough accountability to stop the snowball that is rolling. NRA has no accountability. 

We need to get people into office that will boil all these grievances down to specifics so we can get to a state of accountability. 

Accountability and specifics, that is how we get to the other side of this. 

Defund police? Let's boil that down and get to the specifics of what that actually looks like. Don't like the militarization of the police due to the heavy funding they receive? Where is the money they are receiving going to and how can that be better allocated? 

Do you reallocate within the department to increase the training and vetting process for hiring so we don't get racist a-hole good-ole boy cover up artist cops that spoil the bunch? Within that same process increase the pay of policemen and increase the education requirement to get in so the career attracts more men and women who will do right by the badge. 

Do we need to reallocate some of those funds to social services so they can build a force well trained and ready to handle some of the more menial calls the police get? What does that look like. 

Make some changes, and have the ability to turn away from it if it doesn't work out without having to call a congressional meeting and establish a task force to get to the bottom of it which leaves the process in place for too long.

If we dig down to the root of the problem and come up with ideas to fix it, then test one with an easy way out.

Accountability and specifics.
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


#19
(09-01-2020, 09:58 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: ....
We need accountability in this nation. Our police force has run for way too long without enough accountability. Our politicians have gone far too far without any accountability. After watching that video Dahlsim posted, BLM seems like they haven't been given enough accountability to stop the snowball that is rolling. NRA has no accountability. 

We need to get people into office that will boil all these grievances down to specifics so we can get to a state of accountability
....
Accountability and specifics.

Agree 100%.  That's actually what election time is supposed to be for accountability.  The system only gives us a binary choice in the end but people do have the ability to hold leaders responsible. 

Those elected leaders are the ones that get hired to spend full time hours working on the specifics of solutions. 
Everyday Americans realistically aren't going to have that time or take out that much time to figure out specific solutions even if they have the time.  Its not going to happen. 

So we the people are responsible for holding the right people accountable. That's why there's so much noise right now in the news about who is actually responsible for the carnage happening in so many US cities. If we hold the wrong political leaders accountable then there won't be solutions.
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#20
(09-02-2020, 01:44 AM)Dahlsim Wrote:
(09-01-2020, 09:58 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: ....
We need accountability in this nation. Our police force has run for way too long without enough accountability. Our politicians have gone far too far without any accountability. After watching that video Dahlsim posted, BLM seems like they haven't been given enough accountability to stop the snowball that is rolling. NRA has no accountability. 

We need to get people into office that will boil all these grievances down to specifics so we can get to a state of accountability
....
Accountability and specifics.

Agree 100%.  That's actually what election time is supposed to be for accountability.  The system only gives us a binary choice in the end but people do have the ability to hold leaders responsible. 

Those elected leaders are the ones that get hired to spend full time hours working on the specifics of solutions. 
Everyday Americans realistically aren't going to have that time or take out that much time to figure out specific solutions even if they have the time.  Its not going to happen. 

So we the people are responsible for holding the right people accountable. That's why there's so much noise right now in the news about who is actually responsible for the carnage happening in so many US cities. If we hold the wrong political leaders accountable then there won't be solutions.
I'm so against both parties right now cause all both sides are doing is causing confusion. I don't like the way any of this is going. (Edit: I need to lump the media into this rant who is doing us absolutely no favors and needs to be held accountable too!!!)

I wish we had more elected officials that cared more about their constituents than the lobbyist whispering in their ear and buying from their shell company. 

I want people who truly care about America and are DOING (not talking about) the things they believe will better our lives. 

I can accept trying and failing, I have just grown so terribly tired of talking and not doing. Every election time we all get told what the vision is and what will happen if we elect them. Whoever it is gets elected (either party) on that platform and we're lucky if they get a couple of those bullet points accomplished.

Man, the single biggest thing I LOVED about Trump's platform was his vision for taxes. Everyone pays a straight whatever% (15-20? If I remember correctly). No more tax breaks, no more write offs, no ways to get out of it. If you earn money in America, you pay the government the same % as every other person making money in America. Makes tax season simple, no more putting together books-worth of ridiculous paperwork.

I didn't vote for either side that last election cause I didn't like either candidate and I can't stand the thought of picking the lesser of 2 evils, so I voted for the other guy that was on the ballot without knowing who he was or what he wanted. This next election I'm considering just finding a random guy that I agree with on this forum, asking him for his name and writing his name down, cause like last election I can't understand why both parties are gonna make us choose between the 2 candidates they're putting forth. 

I get more and more upset every year with the way our politicians are treating us, and while throwing away my single vote won't accomplish what I want to have happen, I know the path we continue going down doesn't work either.

Something's gotta change and we need to get down to specifics to give our system, leaders and civil servants accountability.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


  


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BLM the official message of the NBA00